Archive for This forum is for serving or retired firefighters from the LFB. This is the place to have a moan, have a laugh and maybe even get some proper answers to some time honoured and new questions
Rumour has it that the new shifts will be 12hr shifts. 8 till 8. I'm sure this will be up for "negotiation" but apparently, it's due to come in on Jan 1st 2010.
At least the travelling wont be too bad at that time of the morning, but then at the same time, if we just roll over and take it, they will just steamroller us with more, like taking the beds away etc.
Smoke Dodger
we have to face facts, the beds will go if they get the 12hr shifts in, and we will be powerless to stop it. i doubt we would get much public support to keep beds on the station.
Cyclops246
We need to oppose the change to 12 hour shifts. Unless you like doing just day duties or working with people you don't know.
Blaze Bear
If they change the shifts we will be next, I can see why they want to start earlier for training and stuff but 12 hour days are so s**t it will be a sad day for us all
I've posted something in the Union section about it
Strings
I spoke to a Union Official this evening and he said that the shift changes can't happen. He said the Union are fully opposed to the changes and if the Brigade want to impose it, they will have to sack EVERYONE, and if they do that, we then can do them for breech of contract. Or something like that, so as far as I take it, the shifts wont change, at least for the forseeable future anyway.
Blaze Bear
Strings wrote:
I spoke to a Union Official this evening and he said that the shift changes can't happen. He said the Union are fully opposed to the changes and if the Brigade want to impose it, they will have to sack EVERYONE, and if they do that, we then can do them for breech of contract. Or something like that, so as far as I take it, the shifts wont change, at least for the foreseeable future anyway.
Can't see us wining it that easy
Strings
Blaze Bear wrote:
Strings wrote:
I spoke to a Union Official this evening and he said that the shift changes can't happen. He said the Union are fully opposed to the changes and if the Brigade want to impose it, they will have to sack EVERYONE, and if they do that, we then can do them for breech of contract. Or something like that, so as far as I take it, the shifts wont change, at least for the foreseeable future anyway.
Can't see us wining it that easy
I know what you mean, but he seemed pretty certain that was the case. But we'll see, I'm with you on that though, it definately wont be that easy.
Blaze Bear
The main question is......Will we go out the doors if they change us to 12's?
The unfortunate fact is, and I know I'll annoy a lot of the guys. We could do with starting days an hour or so earlier purely for training. There are so many times when appliances can't get away to training venues or are late because of stand-by's and strategic resources or other problem out of the stations control.
Most fire fighters complain about not training enough (or adequately) and here the brigade is offering us the chance (in theory) to do this, I wonder how will accept this? This will include the FRU dept who at this time are not allowed to claim overtime so have to leave station early to return to STC before 4.30pm, this means sometimes hurrying or cutting down the drill, a practise no-one in the team approves of or agrees to.
BlazingPalace
Why do we have to go out of the doors? In fact I think that is exactly what they want, if you remember and I am sure there is a link on the news section here to the LFB signing up along with other fire authorities to a private company who would provide fire cover in times of catastrophic disaster / terrorist attack or industrial action.
It would be better to work to rule / no co operation etc, no temporary, no hanging on to keep machines on the run, no volunteering to run Life courses, or this new Cadet scheme, all those who have applied for stewardship at Wimbledon, withdrawal now so the brigade has no presence there. There are hundreds of ways to bring the brigade to its knees without doing anything illegal, it’s up to us to either do something about it or just accept it.
Remember we have done all they have asked, taking on new skills and equipment and our reward so far is no pay rise this year and a change in shifts, enough is enough.
Straight8
I agree.
Walking out the doors is a last resort, although I gather from my 'snout' at Asset Co (Who tendered for the rent-a-scab deal) is that Group 4 was unable to attract enough applicants for the Governments new 'strike cover' brigade.
I think telling them to stuff pre-arranged (which I don't agree with anyway) and anything else that helps them out such as LIFE or courses, then continue to work the current system regardless of any forced changes.
Then take it from there.
Blaze Bear
What about 24 hr shifts
Straight8
Personaly I'd love a 24 or even a 48 hour shift.
However, as soon as we concede to a change, it will be open house for them in the future and we'll be back to square one.
We really need to concentrate the publicity around machines being unavailable at night or even in the day because half the watch have been stood at Tesco's all day handing out leaflets.
The 'bed' thing will be peddled out by Coleman and co.
I don't even think Ron Dobson is behind this 12 hour idea reading between the lines of his recent statements.
His hand is being forced, unlike Knight, Clarkson or Robinson who would have relished a fight with the men at the drop of a hat.
Smoke Dodger
BlazingPalace wrote:
It would be better to work to rule / no co operation etc, no temporary, no hanging on to keep machines on the run, no volunteering to run Life courses, or this new Cadet scheme, all those who have applied for stewardship at Wimbledon, withdrawal now so the brigade has no presence there. There are hundreds of ways to bring the brigade to its knees without doing anything illegal, it’s up to us to either do something about it or just accept it.
You will never get people to boycott Wimbledon, or pre- arranged overtime, as both these are about the money, the same with hanging on and acting up. there will always be people prepared to do what management need, usually for their own advancement.
Straight8
I believe if the Union said No more Pre Arranged tomorrow, 99% of members would follow that.
Those that chose to 'scab' (strong word perhaps) would'nt receive much of a welcome when they turn up for their £300 night shift.
I suspect it will be one of the sanctions, short of a strike, that will be implemented if and when the talks reach stalemate.
BlazingPalace
A ban on pre arranged overtime, working life courses, the bike project etc etc would have an effect upon the authorities ability to provide the service they want to. Yes not everyone will do it, some will continue, that’s ok it only takes the majority, to achieve the desired effect.
Cyclops246
Blaze Bear wrote:
This will include the FRU dept who at this time are not allowed to claim overtime so have to leave station early to return to STC before 4.30pm, this means sometimes hurrying or cutting down the drill, a practise no-one in the team approves of or agrees to.
Even if the Brigade manage to impose twelve hour shifts upon us I doubt it will make much of a difference to either training or the logistics of running your working day when most support staff will continue to work 08:30-16:30.
The arguments peddled by management regarding freeing up time for training and the provision of a better response in the event of terrorist action are all bollocks. It's all about being able to have flexible arrangements for fire cover and to shut stations at night and ultimately SAVE MONEY. The current 9/15 shift system works fine- if management really wanted to correct a system that is obviously flawed in its concept and even worse in practice they would do away with Strategic Resource immediately.
BlazingPalace
Have to agree with Dave, what will change for the support staff? shift change only affects those at station / RMC unless I have missed something in the propaganda spewed out by senior management
NorthernMonkey
rent a scab deal
With regards to Straight8's comments below, my mate from Lincs tells me the rent a scab deal has been made. ASSETCO are funding "Emergency Fire Cover Operatives" courses. They start next week for a period of 6 months with a view of training approx 500 people off the street. The course lasts for a whole 10 days and is being run in Lincolnshire. They couldnt get any wholetime to instruct on the courses and so have taken on about 10 retained (some FBU) bods to do the teaching. These bods are being sent to Moreton apparently on RTCI and BAI courses. Coming from Lincolnshire, they will be easily recognisable as they'll be the ONLY ones wearing the new NATIONAL uniform. Maybe people at Moreton may like to point out the error and potential consequences of their actions. Also, with regards to shift changes, contact Lincolnshires FBU team, they've been successfully fighting off proposed changes for over 2 years, inc 12 hour shifts.
Redbusrider
Could not agree more. Looked what happened last time we went out the doors!!!!! There are always more than one way to skin a cat. Unfortunatly its always the few who sacrifice for the many by way of no pre-arranged, acting up etc.
Blaze Bear
Well I can't act up, don't get normal overtime or prearranged but will vote with you guys all the same, hope it doesn't come to that
Strings
I wouldn't act up, pre-arranged, hang on or anything.
As much as the 12's would do me a favour, we can't let them impose it. If we buckle to that and say yeah ok, then they will just impose anything they want over time.
Straight8
Re: rent a scab deal
NorthernMonkey wrote:
With regards to Straight8's comments below, my mate from Lincs tells me the rent a scab deal has been made. ASSETCO are funding "Emergency Fire Cover Operatives" courses. They start next week for a period of 6 months with a view of training approx 500 people off the street. The course lasts for a whole 10 days and is being run in Lincolnshire. They couldnt get any wholetime to instruct on the courses and so have taken on about 10 retained (some FBU) bods to do the teaching. These bods are being sent to Moreton apparently on RTCI and BAI courses. Coming from Lincolnshire, they will be easily recognisable as they'll be the ONLY ones wearing the new NATIONAL uniform. Maybe people at Moreton may like to point out the error and potential consequences of their actions. Also, with regards to shift changes, contact Lincolnshires FBU team, they've been successfully fighting off proposed changes for over 2 years, inc 12 hour shifts.
Thanks for that, I watched the Toad of toad hall trying to justify it on the ITV London News last night.
Someone will take him out one day, I've never come across a bloke who relishes people hating him quite so much as this clown does.
