New FRU's at stations

Blaze Bear · New FRU's at stations

The sixth and final FRU has gone to its station (Bethnal Green), its will officially go 'on the run' wed 26th September. It has been marred however with problems straight from the start as has the other five new ones.

The official LFB story is here http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/detail.asp?id=893 although this just mentions the last FRU to 'go live' which was Clerkenwell, although it doesn't mention any problems with missing equipment or parts of the vehicle being broken.

Now logic would tell you everything should be working and all the equipment available and loaded onto the FRU before it even left the workshop never mind given to the station. This as usual was not the case and it has been left to the watch's to make do with out the stuff until it can be ordered on POM's

smudger22 · Lockers!

Has anyones else had a problem with the FRU locker catches breaking, apparently they've upgraded the new ones so it shouldn't happen anymore but the older ones still seem to break on a regular basis.

Blaze Bear

Have seen some of the older black catches break but this happening because of people slamming them shut, I little less arm muscle may be the way :lol:

firestorm

Hi all.
The older FRU's had very cheap and cheerful catches on them and broke all the time. I hope assetco realised this and upgraded them on the "big red beds".

Blaze Bear

BlazingPalace

Like most of the new fleet now its built to a price rather than a standard

BlazingPalace

Also, we have plenty of gear which is not complete on the new FRU or equipment we do not need. seems they have just chucked what ever was lying around the workshop at the time.

Blaze Bear

Yea, I remember you getting the water rescue paths for no reason. I can't believe they are so cheap they can just leave three sets on a vehicle that doesn't need them

rob

BlazingPalace

This shows I think a totally lack of understanding by someone on what is required in London from its FRU's.
I know I do not have any experiance in riding an FRU blah blah, but would it not seem sensible to have dedicated FRU'S for say Line Rescue, Water and USART which we have now but also dedicated FRU'S for RTA's Chemical jobs etc, rather than trying to have a fleet do all some of the time but not all the time.

Blaze Bear

'They' are talking about dedicated stations, but they've been talking about this for a while now. I agree, we should have specific FRU's for specific jobs

BlazingPalace · Training for non FRU Watch Managers

Without any more introductions I am a Watch Manager on the Whites at Wimbledon and I wanted to be there when the FRU came on the run. Now here is the bit I would like some help with. I have no FRU qualifications and it seems I am not allowed to gain any, how can I monitor the training of the FRU crew at my station? My Station Manager reckons I can leave it to the FRU Crew Manager and if anything should go wrong I have nothing to worry about, but that does not sit comfortably with me, I would like some technical input just so I know and have a basic idea of what they should be doing.
Apart from reading the training notes the guys got on the training course would it not be possible to organize a 1 day “Technical “ input for people such as me.

BlazingPalace

[img]

An old ET at southwark

If you click on the image it expands to a decent size ( it should do ) can just about make out the back of an old escape ladder to the left

Cyclops246 · Re: Training for non FRU Watch Managers

[Apart from reading the training notes the guys got on the training course would it not be possible to organize a 1 day “Technical “ input for people such as me.[/quote]

Ian,

Your suggestion has been put forward on many occassions by many people. In the main they have been fobbed off with the argument that WM's based at aerial appliance stations do not necessarily have, nor need, an aerial qualification to ensure training takes place. The Watch Manager is responsible for the aerial training taking place but the detail of the training is the responsibility of the Crew Manager and Firefighters holding the qualification. This is of course short-sighted when applied to FRU stations as the training requirements far outweigh anything anywhere else in the Brigade and to omit the Watch Manager from the technical rescue activities at an FRU station exclude him/her from a good 50% (if not more) of what happens on his/her watch.

As with your suggestion above, arguments have been put forward to organize technical rescue training days to introduce Watch and Station Managers to the basics of the varied technical rescue disciplines; all of these arguments in my opinion, are grounded in common sense. However, the old reposts of 'no money' 'no time' and 'no trainer availability' are batted back. Even if they were available, the resulting training needs analysis, consultation process, and all the other red-tape nonsense the LFB does so well, would prevent its occurrence for a considerable time. So, in my opinion....don't hold your breath!!

All that aside, a Watch Manager based at Croydon has managed to access some of the technical rescue courses available, but this has been done by sneaking in under the wire. If you're upfront with it you'll get a resounding 'no' (unless you have managed to retain an FRU qualification from Sub O days, that is!!!).

A way around all of this is to make better use of the preponderance of FRU's and book second line for your Pump Ladder and' FRU, and second line for one of the 'old' FRU's that is engaged in line rescue, swift water rescue, boat handling and USAR and arrange joing tech rescue training days. We have capability at Battersea in the station itself, and at some outside venues, to facilitate this. We recently put on a display for the Commissioner and the Directorate of Resilience at CLG which with a few tweeks would go some way to providing what you need. Unfortunately we're on opposing watches now, but the Whites at H27 would accommodate you.

Dave

p.s Look out for the proposal for T/FRU 's and H/FRU's in the near future.

BlazingPalace

Dave
Thanks for that, I sort of expected that response. Management are always quick to rebuff suggestions with very flimsy excuses about cost and availability.
I will certainly look into arranging some training with the FRU and PL and getting some input from your guys on the whites at Battersea.
Go on then what the hell is a T/FRU and a H/FRU
All the best for 2008
Ian

Cyclops246

Hi Ian,

Happy New year mate.
T/FRU and H/FRU....I got this from a principle officer and from a senior officer involved in FRU policy.
The plan is that eleven FRU's, that is the 'original' ten plus Millwall, will be technical rescue FRU's (T/FRU), and concentrate on core rescue work and technical rescue (line, USAR, swift water and boat); while the other five (including Wimbledon) will do core rescue work and hazmat (Firefighter decon, DIM support etc.).

Sound good?? I doubt it.

Dave

Blaze Bear

Hi guys,

I have just been in a meeting and heard the same thing; god knows how the hell they will sort it out as we can’t even get a single FRU away at 9.00am when its on strategic resources to go to RART training.

Then what happens to ‘out duties’, do the FFs’s that go to another station have to have same qualifications or do they just take that resource (like line) off the FRU. Sounds a bit pointless although I do understand the problem of trying to keep current at everything

BlazingPalace

Thanks for your replies lads it makes grim reading! Seems like no one knows what they are doing when trying to make policies.
From my own point of view I think it would be sensible to have a number of FRU’s just doing the USART bit with a couple of others doing the swift water rescue and couple more doing the line bit etc etc so the work is shared out amongst all units. It’s not just FRU’s that can not get away because of strategic resource not being authorised, it causes havoc full stop at a station with anything you have planned for the morning. Still in some respects it makes me smile we all knew it would not work but they keep on with it rather than admit we are right.
Happy New Year

smudger22

I don't know whether you'll all agree with this, but I'd rather be a jack of all trades, we may not be masters of one, but hopefully good enough (so long as we're alllowed to do the training we need and want).
I think as soon as you start making 'specialist' FRUs then you'll end up with a few not moving at all, it's bad enough now when a bit of kit comes OTR and we end up missing shouts on our own ground, can you imagine the gripes when it happens all the time coz 'we're only RTA'! or 'Hazmat'.
The key thing with FRUs has always been getting the right people on the machines that
a) want to be there.
b) don't mind doing the extra drills necessary to stay 'on the ball'.
c) the right OIC's to help mantain the commitment (we're ok at H34 w/w)
I personnally find most FRU personnel very keen and so long as management allow the training necessary to keep up the skills required I think the public should get a professional service.
I'm just going to sit back and wait for the barrage now....
Fire away boys (and girls).

BlazingPalace

Smithy there is no need to sit back and await the onslaught as I am sure it will never come. Everyone here wants the best for us and themselves. It’s a matter of training and allocating resources to it.
In an ideal word every FRU qualified firefighter would be swift water rescue, line2 etc etc with the Brigade running course all year, so every week or so a firefighter could go and get trained and refreshed and maintain his / her skills but we know that will never happen.
We need to ensure that within the “Golden Hour” a casualty receives the best chance of surviving and part of that is a measured response from the Fire and Rescue Service.
Now we could better equip Pump Ladders with enhanced cutting and spreading equipment which would allow for longer travelling times for FRU’s but then that would require initial investment in equipment from management plus the training of all fire crews, so again the cost would be prohibitive.
Better to have all FRU’s available to be mobilised to RTC’s but do we really need every FRU to have all the other attributes? If not how many and what ones?
Whilst I accept that most firefighters want to be busy going out on lots of shouts every day that is not going to happen. We need to make sure that a) Firefighters have the right equipment to carry out any task they are given safely b) That those firefighters using that equipment have received proper and decent training c) There are sufficient resources available to allow those firefighters to train in a realistic environment. d) Sufficient additional resources available for firefighters at incidents should they be required.

I know that I have left more questions unanswered in this reply but this helps the discussion and people to add their little bit to the thread which I hope they do.

dannyr

Hello Guys, i would like if i may to point out a few things that occured while i was on the FRU team in answer to the recent posts (4 years in total from the start fo the new units till last feb)

WM training- was put forward for all officers so that wm's, sm's, GM's BM's all had an idea of what the FRU did/does and what they could do for them at an incident, answer well no! but we did try it. We arranged a set of dates for SM's and WM's to attend Paddington where we were based at the time, for a line fam course of all the WM's and SM's within the brigade how many do you think answered? well we ran one day! with i think it was 8 officers turning up! well that was worth it wasnt it!

Kit on the FRU- we put a suggestion forward on what we had believed would work having spoken to people at stations like Battersea and Euston who had used the old gear and had some very good ideas on what they wanted or needed, these ideas were put forward to the people who were responsible for the purchase and spec for all the new gear guess what the answer was? No

Training- we suggested that each station or rather two stations each had a dedicated trainer who would liase with each station and assist with skills maintenance helping to arrange venues and training provision. answer ? well it was initially a yes but guess what? has it happened? NO

Dedicated rescue stations- wont even bother with the explanation answer NO

News letter with shout information supplied by stations so that everyone could learn from it thereby desemminating experience to a wider audience- answer NO

There can only be so many times that the answer no can be taken eventually even the keenest of us has the enthusiasum knocked out of us!

With that said some of the training team have now left most have gone to FRU stations i for one am at Croydon and i am more than happy to help out with training for CM's or WM's if they would like to understand what there lorries do we still have access to the team and our knowledge if anyone wants to take advantage of it? we should all be trying to share as much information as possible with each other as we all know shouts are very few and far between, we qare more like soldiers now training training training waiting for the bells to go down but with so many FRU's and the rumours of 6 more! when will we get a shout!? when will the chance of putting into practice the skills we have aquired be put into practice? why cant we go to the college every now and again and have some realistic incidents that confirm our learning and training allowing us to practice in a realistic environment ? well im afraid the answer will be another no cost etc being the main reason. Why cant we have lights and heavys? (sound familiar to anyone?) surely this would be a better way to go forward or is it backward? division of the skills needed to maintain, permenant posting to FRU as a machine rather than the station, for lets say two years, before going back as an operational Ff? surely this would create around 500 more jobs wouldnt it? and allow FRU Ff's more time to hone and perfect their skills.

If any CM's or WM's would like to arrange some training for themselves give me a shout i need it for my book! and am always willing to give information and help to people who want it!

Danny

dannyr · Newbie

Oi moderator how come im on as a newbie? whats that all about?

Blaze Bear

maybe cos you've only posted twice before this :lol:

smudger22

Hi Dan,
I'm not sure whether it's the Brigade not knowing what to do when someone is enthusiastic, or whether they just want us to be foot soldiers who do as they're told when they're told without questioning the reasons, but it is strange how when you do get a team/crew or station that show some enthusiasm and actually want to be the 'best' how hard it actually is to get the backing required to achieve the goal!
I think we've all had the usual 'No' answer for many a drill/exercise or training request, you just have to ignore it and keep battling on. Do what you want and achieve your goals usually by excluding the Brigade.
Chin up boys and girls, do the stuff you want to be the best FFs you want to be!
:)

Blaze Bear

What I have found sort of enforces Danny's thought, there is only so many times you can try before they knock the enthusiasm out of you.

I came to my current place of work with all the enthusiasm and good intentions to make it a better place and training environment. I know the senior officers like to say they want new and good ideas but its usually when it fits into their 'box', if it doesn't then its thrown out without any major thought.

It seams to be the people on the 'ground' aren't allowed to assess and maybe change practises that have been the 'norm' for so long but don't work any more.

The fact that we have to wait months and sometimes years to get op notes changed or even looked at because we aren't allowed to re-write them and have them assessed is just pathetic. I am still using notes and Op notes that were out of date when I did the FRU course.

How do we change this..................

Guest

Well, it's a bit drastic, but how about a cull?
I saw a programme on TV the other night, this whole village got together to kill the nasty land owner, they all set up a gun to a door, all held the string to pull the trigger so that they couldn't all be charged with murder.
If we all get together I'm sure we could weedle out the 'numpties' and the ones that shouldn't be in the job let alone in charge. May take some time, but is it a plan or is it a plan?
:D

Guest

That was me by the way (smudger), it didn't log me in so i'm down as guest (dam will I never be a tutor).
:roll:

Blaze Bear

Great plan smudger, but you'll not have many left on shift :shock:

Straight8

Blaze Bear

I've not heard anything about another six coming on the run, think dannyr may have meant the last six

BlazingPalace

Redbusrider · Tech and rescue FRU

I've heard the 10 tech rescue units and six hazmat too, apprently its because the 6 new units are expendable and just goffers for the CBRN team,so its not worth givivng them any skills :lol: The brigade are also looking at Tech rescue stations!

BlazingPalace

So how come Millwall a new FRU is to become a tech one?

Blaze Bear

As far as I know, Milwall is staying with a water attribute

Cyclops246

Millwall acquire water/Boat Rescue becuase they have all the docks etc.

BlazingPalace

renal

BlazingPalace

Was thinking of more when the Thames bursts its banks, which it has done many times before, rather than the rescue of people from the thames its self, we have the RNLI to do that.

renal

Blaze Bear

Smoke Dodger

i think you'll find that Heston is Quite close to Twickenham, just a thought.

BlazingPalace

As I said what do I know :)

Blaze Bear

don't worry blazing, I don't know one end of London from the other and every time I ask smoke dodger directions he try's to charge me money

BlazingPalace

or Wimbledon which is close to surbiton :D

renal

Blaze Bear

Probably weren't big enough to accomodate any more appliances

Redbusrider

Would it have been much better to have placed the new 6 units at some of the existing FRU stations?

Cyclops246

Whoa....Careful Redbusrider!!! You're making sense....that's not a good quality for a policy maker in the LFB. Next you'll be suggesting that we didn't need the six new FRU's at all!!!

Redbusrider

Mmmmm

Blaze Bear

Maybe I should start a thread saying ' whats the saest thing you heard at work today'

may be a very short post :wink:

New FRU's at stations

Lockers!

Training for non FRU Watch Managers

Re: Training for non FRU Watch Managers

Newbie

Tech and rescue FRU