Quints

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:48 pm

Several UK brigades are begin to roll out Quints (Also known as C.A.R.P) into there fleets. For anyone noT familar, from what I can work out, they are basically a combined pump and Aeriel appliance. They have been in use in the USA for a number of years but I never seen or even heard of them until the other day. Having only limted experience of an ALP just wondered what everyone thought of them? Im assuming if they prove to be a sucess (and more cost effective) they could be in the LFB eventually

http://www.bucksfire.gov.uk/Bucks...tions/Meet+the+fleet/TheQuint.htm

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:12 am

I worked on the aerial review group about 7 years ago perhaps a bit longer, and these type of appliances were looked at then. At that time there was no one other than americian companys producing such appliances and the idea was shelved. Not sure if it would ever get looked at again they are still fairly large appliances for most of the side streets in London. But you never know, does look the dogs nuts though

Newbie User Online: Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Posts: 13

Sure does look good, although whether that type of vehicle would be suited to London or not is a different matter.
I presume a single "Quint" is cheaper than purchasing a pump and aerial separatly?

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:37 pm

but ive heard that apparently there are a number of problems with these 'C.A.R.Ps' especially stability wise!!

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:53 pm

and of course we have never had a HP or a Pump Ladder turn over !

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:58 pm

well true... but ive heard they are like the bulk water carriers the LFB have spent an age tryin to get into service and we are still waiting!!

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:37 pm

Hi Guys,

As a writer with a very heavy fire service interest, I thought I could add a little bit to the quint discussion from this side of the Atlantic Ocean. There are some perception problems with quints being on the run:

Myth: The community (both politicians and citizens) beleive that they have acquried a 'complete fire department (brigade) in a single vehicle' staffed by four to five firefighers.

Fact 1: This simply does not work; as one single truck can not function as both an aerial device and as a pumping apparatus concurrently unless it iis positioned immediately in front of the fire building and a water supply (hydrant) is within one or two lengths of supply hose line; and the rig carries a very large crew..

Fact 1 Explained: To use a single quint as a base for both ladder company operations and engine company operations it takes a large amount of crew and probably two officers. Here in the United States (where they put decent sized crews on an aerial truck) the deployment would be for the driver to take charge at the turntable pedestal; a second firefigher assigned to the roof, the third member of the crew to perform venting from outside the fire structure; with the officer and two remaining firefighters performing interior searches after opening up access to the building. (Less crew would eliminate the roof and outside vent positions). Total crew of ladder operations: five (5). Now as a pumper, one firefighter would be at the pump control panel, two - three firefighters with an officer can usually be found handling the line to attack the fire (hopefully three if you are using 2 1/2 inch hose). Total needed for really effective pump operations five (5). To do both concurrently - ten (10); and I don't know of any company with that much staff per shift. If the water supply is not within one or two supply line hose lengths of the quint, the apparatus will generally need support from another vehicle; the city of Syracuse, New York runs their quints (termed 'Maxi Units') with a second piece (termed a 'Midi Unit') which is smaller pumping apparatus whose sole fireground duty is to stretch a supply line from the quint to the hydrant and boost the hydrant pressue with its pump as needed.

Don't get me wrong, with the right tactics and dispatch policies a quint can do a lot of good; look at the Saint Louis, Missouri fire department which replaced their entire fleet of pumpers and aerial ladders with thrity-five quints and four aerial ladders; and they are now in the second generation of vehicles with this form of operation. Before quints St. Louis dispatch policy was to send up to three engines and two trucks to an alarm, after the quints arrived it became the policy to send up to five quints; the first in rig would perform ladder functions, the second engine functions, the third though fifth would perform duties as the battalion chief would dictate. I have personally seen this work and the flexability is good provided you have trained all your firefighting personal in both ladder and engine company operations.

Sorry if I am speaking out of turn but I thought a few comments were in order.

Click to see full size image

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:01 pm

Its not a case of trying to get them into service..its a case of trying to make sure they are safe.on the run. First time one rolls and there would be all hell to pay.

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:15 am

'the third member of the crew to perform venting from outside the fire structure; with the officer and two remaining firefighters performing interior searches after opening up access to the building'

With the problems we've experienced in the UK recently with poor decision making at major incidents resulting in firefighters losing their lives, the idea I've quoted above would be a recipe for disaster. It would only work with crews that are absolutely familiar with each other with a complete understanding of the type of reaction to be expected when venting is carried out and with communication between the crew.

My opinion is that the UK want everything on the cheap. So outduties and standby moves would negate the familiarity issue; we spend too much time glueing smoke alarms to people's ceilings and not enough time training, so venting in the UK is a misunderstood concept; and most UK brigades don't have personal comms (it took the death of two colleagues in London to justify the brigade's splashing out on personal radios for us).

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:08 am

I recently completed the supervisory manager’s refresher at the fire service college. We had a 30 minute input on tatical ventilation. I asked why we could not do it practically at the college; let us play around let’s see what happens etc etc after all they have all the facilities there. Yep you guessed it ………. Can not afford to cover practical ventilation, so the only time we get to do it for real is on the fire ground and if we get it wrong well… lets not go there.
I know for one I think long and hard before getting ventilation carried out.